Red Wings Central – Red Wings Cap Trouble Generator Allows You to See for Yourself What I’ve Been Saying About Keeping Hossa
Try it. You won’t like it.
Incompetent B.S. from the Edmonton Journal on the Topic of Hossa, Franzen and the cap
It’s no surprise that Johan Franzen is getting an 11-year, $43-million contract that runs until 2021 to spread out the cap hit ($1 million the final two, years when he’ll be 38 and 39 years old).
Uh no, the cap hit is the same every year, dumba**. [UPDATE: oh, I see. The parenthetical refers not to that which precedes it, but to the contracted payment; at least, I think that's what he thinks he's saying.]
Same story with Henrik Zetterberg ($6.1 million cap hit over 12 years). They may eventually close that loophole, but Wings’ GM Ken Holland is simply playing by the rules now. And Franzen’s average cap hit of $3.95 million is actually close to what a veteran agent thought he’d get last week. Franzen will get $36 million in the first seven years, starting at $5.5 million next season — his salary more in tune with his tremendous goal-scoring ability. “Let’s see now, we have an 11-year contract and a 12-year contract, so I guess Marian will take 10 or 13 years,” laughed Hossa’s agent Ritch Winter, who talked to Holland about numbers Saturday, although Holland won’t be able to sign Hossa until June because of their cap situation.
Actually, that makes no sense at all.
Hossa is going nowhere. His cap hit will be in the $6-million range. “I will tell you this: despite what people are saying, the salary cap in Detroit will definitely be no impediment to Marian signing there,” said Winter.
Right. Do the math: in order for the Wings to sign Hossa with a cap hit of $6MM, they will have to dump at least two huge salaries. Who are they going to get rid of? Filppula and Stuart? Kronwall and Stuart? Take your pick. But you can’t say there will be “no impediment.”
UPDATE: Just to be sure, I added the numbers up again. A Hossa cap hit of $6MM would leave the Wings with a cap number of $59.3 with four players left to sign. That means, assuming entry level salaries, that they would have a cap hit of around $62MM. Assume the cap will go up nominally, a couple million. The Wings must shed at least one huge salary and probably two, in addition to losing Samuelsson and Hudler. So call it Samuelsson, Hudler, Stuart and maybe someone else. I don’t believe it. And still, it’s not NO impediment.
via More Hockey World .
Kukla’s Korner: Who Deserves 11 Year Contracts?
There’s no questioning his ability to put the puck in the net, but is he a core guy on your team that you want to keep until he’s 40? There’s no way to predict things, but goal-scorer skills tend to decline pretty fast once you hit your mid-30s. Ask John Leclair about that; his whole game was based around putting the puck in the net from within a 15-foot radius around the crease, and in the end, he couldn’t have begged his way onto a team.
via KuklasKorner : Mike Chen’s Hockey Blog : Who Deserves 11-Year Contracts? .
Detroit’s Cap Issues UPDATED FRANZEN CONTRACT EDITION
Datsyuk 6.7, Zetterberg 6, Franzen 3.95, Filppula 3.0, Cleary 2.8, Holmstrom 2.25, Draper 1.583, Maltby .750, Lidstrom 7.45, Rafalski 6.0, Stuart 3.75, Kronwall 3.0, Lilja 1.25, Lebda .650, Meech .483, Ericsson .900, Osgood 1.417, Hudler RFA, Hossa UFA, Samuelsson UFA, Kopecky UFA, Conklin UFA.
TOTAL $52.016
But need to sign 6 forwards and 1 goalie. If the goalie is Howard, add 0.717. Now: $52.733. That leaves $3.967MM left to sign six forwards.
[the following is cut-and-paste from my previous analysis of Holland's options, from a few weeks ago -- with today's updates/edits indicated:]
Option #1: Sign Hossa for…I don’t know…say $5MM (cap hit), which is about a million less than the pay cut everything thinks he’s going to get. But let’s call it $5MM. Maybe Holland does some fancy footwork and front loads the contract so the cap hit is less than the salary. That would leave just under $3MM for six forwards. Which is under $500K per guy. Which means they would have to let go not only of Franzen, but Samuelsson, Hudler and Kopecky and replace them with dirt cheap prospects at, well, league minimum salary. And this would put them exactly at the cap, which give Holland no wiggle room at all. I think Hossa is going to cost more than a $5MM cap hit, but since the Zetterberg hit is $6MM, I’m going to say it’s possible. I just don’t think even at that price they can avoid dismantling the team. So, basically, that option sucks. [option #1 is off the table]
Option #2: Let Hossa walk; sign Franzen at a cap hit of $3.5MM (front loading salary, I guess). [cap hit of $3.95MM, as it turned out] That would leave something like $4.5MM $4MM to sign six other forwards. Still tight, but doable. Sign two of Samuelsson, Kopecky and Hudler (for the sake of argument, let Hudler walk and sign the other for…less than $2MM total; again, a stretch, but doable). That would leave $2.7MM-ish [$2.2MM-ish] for 4 forwards, which means four prospects basically. That’s possible, but just barely. UPDATE: Assuming the cap goes up nominally this season, it will give Holland the room to make this work. Again, no wiggle room, but in this scenario, they’ve retained Franzen, Samuelsson and Kopecky (say), and lost only Hossa and Hudler. That’s a more-balanced roster. But still, it’s financially very, very [UPDATE: VERY VERY VERY] tight.
Option #2a: Holland convinces Hossa to take the offer he was going to give to Franzen, $3-4MM. Then he lets Franzen walk. This will never happen. Thus the “2a” designation.
Option #3: Trade someone away for picks and prospects, clearing some cap space. Only four names seem even remotely plausible, and two of those are borderline: Filppula, Cleary, Stuart and Kronwall. Their salaries are big enough to make a difference. Trading a forward creates a hole in the roster that you have to fill, however, so I’m going to say option #3 would require moving a defenseman. Stuart or Kronwall. Stuart, probably. Trade Stuart to someone for picks or prospects or (maybe even better), prospects who can fill those cheap forward slots. Although that part is not as important as freeing up the salary. Then, with just shy of $11.75MM to spend, maybe they can sign both Hossa and Franzen. Still, how much would those two (combined) have to take in order for the numbers to work. Let’s say the other five forwards (Samuelsson, Kopecky, plus three faceless cheap-ass prospects) run $4MM, which is about the cheapest that’s going to happen. That leaves $7.75MM for both Hossa and Franzen. And that’s after having traded away Stuart or Kronwall. And that’s at least $2.25MM less than what the so-called conventional wisdom says those two players might sign for. So common sense says, forget it. It would literally have to be Hossa taking $5MM and Franzen taking less than $3MM. [UPDATE: now that Franzen is locked in at $3.95MM, Hossa would have to take $3.55MM for this option to work.]
Is that going to happen? Oh, probably not. [UPDATE: come on! No way, right?] If Holland can deal a defenseman, free up cap space, and then talk two superstars into accepting a deep pay-cut for the privilege of playing for the Red Wings, he (Holland) deserves some kind of sparkly prize.
Option #4: Several deals to free up even more space. But once you move beyond the option of trading away one expensive player (as per option #3), you’re twisting yourself into a pretzel just to retain two guys that might not be — probably won’t be — worth the contortions.
Holland has to reason that he has won cups without Hossa, and will be able to do so after Hossa moves on to play on that line with Frolov and Kopitar at the beach. I think he lets Hossa walk. [UPDATE: this seems even more likely now.]
Detroit Red Wings sign F Johan Franzen to $43.5 million, 11-year deal – ESPN
Detroit signed forward Johan Franzen to an 11-year, $43.5 million deal Saturday, keeping him off the free agent market and retaining talent that helped the Red Wings win the Stanley Cup.
The contract averages $3.95 million per season. The team said the deal for Franzen, known as Mule, is the second-longest in team history.
via Detroit Red Wings sign F Johan Franzen to $43.5 million, 11-year deal – ESPN.
Detroit’s cap issues
Warning: I am attempting to add.
Datsyuk 6.7, Filppula 3.0, Cleary 2.8, Zetterberg 6, Holmstrom 2.25, Draper 1.583, Maltby .750, Lidstrom 7.45, Rafalski 6.0, Stuart 3.75, Kronwall 3.0, Lilja 1.25, Lebda .650, Meech .483, Ericsson .900, Osgood 1.417, Hudler RFA, Hossa UFA, Franzen UFA, Samuelsson UFA, Kopecky UFA, Conklin UFA.
TOTAL $48.066
But need to sign 7 forwards and 1 goalie. If the goalie is Howard, add 0.717. Now: $48.783. That leaves $7.917MM left to sign seven forwards. How the h*** is that going to work?
Option #1: Sign Hossa for…I don’t know…say $5MM (cap hit), which is about a million less than the pay cut everything thinks he’s going to get. But let’s call it $5MM. Maybe Holland does some fancy footwork and front loads the contract so the cap hit is less than the salary. That would leave just under $3MM for six forwards. Which is under $500K per guy. Which means they would have to let go not only of Franzen, but Samuelsson, Hudler and Kopecky and replace them with dirt cheap prospects at, well, league minimum salary. And this would put them exactly at the cap, which give Holland no wiggle room at all. I think Hossa is going to cost more than a $5MM cap hit, but since the Zetterberg hit is $6MM, I’m going to say it’s possible. I just don’t think even at that price they can avoid dismantling the team. So, basically, that option sucks.
Option #2: Let Hossa walk; sign Franzen at a cap hit of $3.5MM (front loading salary, I guess). That would leave something like $4.5MM to sign six other forwards. Still tight, but doable. Sign two of Samuelsson, Kopecky and Hudler (for the sake of argument, let Hudler walk and sign the other for…less than $2MM total; again, a stretch, but doable). That would leave $2.7MM-ish for 4 forwards, which means four prospects basically. That’s possible, but just barely. Again, no wiggle room, but in this scenario, they’ve retained Franzen, Samuelsson and Kopecky (say), and lost only Hossa and Hudler. That’s a more-balanced roster. But still, it’s financially very, very tight.
Option #2a: Holland convinces Hossa to take the offer he was going to give to Franzen, $3-4MM. Then he lets Franzen walk. This will never happen. Thus the “2a” designation.
Option #3: Trade someone away for picks and prospects, clearing some cap space. Only four names seem even remotely plausible, and two of those are borderline: Filppula, Cleary, Stuart and Kronwall. Their salaries are big enough to make a difference. Trading a forward creates a hole in the roster that you have to fill, however, so I’m going to say option #3 would require moving a defenseman. Stuart or Kronwall. Stuart, probably. Trade Stuart to someone for picks or prospects or (maybe even better), prospects who can fill those cheap forward slots. Although that part is not as important as freeing up the salary. Then, with just shy of $11.75MM to spend, maybe they can sign both Hossa and Franzen. Still, how much would those two (combined) have to take in order for the numbers to work. Let’s say the other five forwards (Samuelsson, Kopecky, plus three faceless cheap-ass prospects) run $4MM, which is about the cheapest that’s going to happen. That leaves $7.75MM for both Hossa and Franzen. And that’s after having traded away Stuart or Kronwall. And that’s at least $2.25MM less than what the so-called conventional wisdom says those two players might sign for. So common sense says, forget it. It would literally have to be Hossa taking $5MM and Franzen taking less than $3MM.
Is that going to happen? Oh, probably not. If Holland can deal a defenseman, free up cap space, and then talk two superstars into accepting a deep pay-cut for the privilege of playing for the Red Wings, he (Holland) deserves some kind of sparkly prize.
Option #4: Several deals to free up even more space. But once you move beyond the option of trading away one expensive player (as per option #3), you’re twisting yourself into a pretzel just to retain two guys that might not be — probably won’t be — worth the contortions.
Holland has to reason that he has won cups without Hossa, and will be able to do so after Hossa moves on to play on that line with Frolov and Kopitar at the beach. I think he lets Hossa walk.
Contract talks between Red Wings and Marian Hossa, Johan Franzen on hold
Contract talks between the Detroit Red Wings and free-agent forwards Marian Hossa and Johan Franzen appear to be at a standstill, as neither side is budging.
General manager Ken Holland is hoping to sign one before the end of the regular season. If he has no deal in place by the first week of April, he will postpone talks until after the playoffs.
“I’ll obviously stay in touch,” Holland said. “I understand where they’re at and they understand where I’m at. We’re talking.
“They both have indicated their first choice is to stay. I can address it in June if I have to. They know the (team’s other) contract commitments.”
Holland met with Hossa’s agent, Ritch Winter, over the weekend. Hossa signed a one-year, $7.45 million deal last July but realizes he must take less (perhaps in the neighborhood of $6 million per season) to stay.
“If we’re not able to find a way, you know what, we had a great player come here for one year,” Holland said.
Franzen’s price tag is expected to be in the $4 million-a-year range.
While Holland said there is a chance he can sign both, he knows he would have to unload a few other players in the process.
“The decision we got to make is, do we want to be top-heavy and not have any depth?” Holland said. “That’s why I’m not rushing into any (moves).”
NHL Rumors – Monday, March 23, 2009.
“SPECTOR’S NOTE: The Wings currently have about $9 million in available cap space and St. James suggests they’ll try to dump some lower-end salary this summer. The problem is Wings GM Ken Holland hopes to re-sign both Hossa and Johan Franzen. Even if he can somehow pull this off for this summer and re-signs both without seriously cutting into his roster depth and cap space he’s got to be careful about handcuffing himself for the 2010-11 season, as the cap for that season could drop to as low as $52 million [emphasis mine].”
Ken Holland on Hossa, Franzen
Holland:
“It’s about team building, it’s about our philosophy. We can keep Franzen and Hossa, but then we’ll have to let a whole lot of other players go. I don’t know if that’s the answer to being competitive. But if I can get a number that I think allows us to have one extra player, you start to think more and more about doing something. Right now, I’m not really close to where I’d like to get to with either side.”
Ken Holland seeks price for Marian Hossa | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press.
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